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Why on earth do Catholics believe *that*???
and since I'm promoting lately, I may as well pose a question... 
5th-Mar-2007 09:23 pm
schneckerock
this came up in one of the recent catholicism discussions, but was never really addressed.

what forms of affection are allowed, and what not allowed, during the abstaining period of NFP? I'm thinking a lot of people have the idea that anything goes, as long as it isn't intercourse (that could get you pregnant), and doesn't involve something artificial...
Comments 
6th-Mar-2007 07:55 am (UTC)
There are plenty of affectionate and sexual acts that have no chance of leading to conception.
6th-Mar-2007 11:51 am (UTC)
I think the question was more of a moral/theological question, not a practical one. =)
(Deleted comment)
6th-Mar-2007 04:52 pm (UTC)
please go read the userinfo again, and then decide if you really want to be here or belong here.
6th-Mar-2007 05:08 pm (UTC)
I read the userinfo. It says "Don't assume everyone here agrees with you."

I'm a very recent returnee to Catholicism, and I'm here to learn, and this particular teaching simply boggles my mind.
6th-Mar-2007 06:11 pm (UTC)
that line in the userinfo applies to those who already accept all the teachings. I suppose it wasn't very clear, but I meant that people should talk in a way that would be easily understood by those coming to learn, and not in a way that is condescending toward or way above the heads of those who don't understand completely.

what I meant, though, is that it should be clear (correct me if I'm wrong) that this isn't the place for promoting ideas that go against church teaching, or to make snide remarks about other faiths, which you did both.

however, now that you've clarified why you're here, I can say welcome aboard :) I do hope you learn what you're looking for here, but I have to say if you learned about these things from secular hippies, you might do better sticking to asking questions or lurking, rather than trying to answer.
6th-Mar-2007 06:40 pm (UTC)
I have a lot of respect for and knowledge about the Orthodox family purity laws; I simply only knew of such rules as they apply in that faith, and not in Catholicism. I know more about those, which is sort of ironic.

The line in the user info is not very clear; since one needs to learn about the reasons why rules apply, and the practical implications of them before accepting them. If people who are in early stages of converting or learning aren't welcome in the discussion, that's completely understandable, but perhaps you should make that clearer.

I'm a product of woefully inadequate, extremely liberal religious education, and I'm single so I have not gone through Pre-Cana. (I actually left the Church since what I had learned prior to Confirmation was utterly unfulfilling.) To people from my background, Humanae Vitae is utterly foreign. Contraception wasn't even discussed in my parish's "sex and family" class.
7th-Mar-2007 03:54 pm (UTC)
yeah, I probaly should re-do the whole userinfo. now that I re-read it, it's not as clear as I would like, and not as broad as I would like either.

I rally know nothing abot Orthodox Jews.. as far as catholicism goes.. it's pretty hardcore in that area, but not as hardcore as some outsiders think ("they can only have sex if they're TRYING to get pregnant!").

Catholic education is, sadly, lacking in most areas. it's getting to where you pretty much have to self-educate if you want to know anything, because the schools and CCD classes are falling dramatically short :(
6th-Mar-2007 06:44 pm (UTC)
Also, let me add: The disconnect for me was that "NFP" used as a broad term from me has a medical connotation; the Catholic applications thereof don't fall under that at first blush, since many people who use it aren't religious at all. I seem to have misunderstood the question.
7th-Mar-2007 03:59 pm (UTC)
technically speaking, NFP is the catholic term, and FAM (fertility awareness method) is the secular term. since the term NFP was, as far as I know, around first, a lot of people (wrongly) use that to mean all of the above. the book "taking charge of your fertility" at least makes the distinction that NFP requires abstinence during fertility (when trying to avoid pregnancy, obviously) where as FAM allows barriers and what not.

so going by that definition, NFP does in fact require complete abstinence form all sexual acts dring the abstaining time. anyone who says otherwise is confusing it with FAM.

of course as far as charting and figuring out what days are fertile and what days are not, they are the same thing, so there's where the lack of distinction comes in.
6th-Mar-2007 03:48 pm (UTC)
I think you miss the point of the question. it's not "how to avoid pregnancy" but why abstaining is OK as far as catholics go, where as condoms, withdrawl, etc. are not. if you're performing "sexual acts that have no chance of leading to conception" it's basically the same as having contracepted sex. (remember, this comm is all about catholic morality here)

NFP teaches that the fertile period is a sacred time during which it's up to God to deciede whether a couple conceives or not if sexual acts take place. if the couple wishes to avoid conception, the couple is to avoid sexual acts all together--even ones that can in no way cause pregnancy. because the idea is not to get the pleasure of the act without the "consequence".
6th-Mar-2007 05:14 pm (UTC)
I think that's where the disconnect is for me. I learned about NFP from secular hippie-types who practice it, and I didn't learn it from a religious perspective.
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